In Conversation With
Tal Williams
I’m the Senior Music Programmer at the Roundhouse, and I’m responsible for the commercial music programme for the venue’s Main Space.
How did you get started in venue programming?
My first experiences in programming started in the mid-2010s when me and a group of friends used to stage and promote shows every few months in small pubs in South London outside of whatever day jobs we had most of which have now shut down sadly - though thankfully not because of our shows!)
It was a proper DIY operation. We had no mentors to show us how to put on shows so we had to take care of everything ourselves and learnt as we went along - booking acts (starting out small with our mates acts and then developing outwards from there), physical and digital marketing campaigns, sourcing and hiring equipment, even securing a TENS if necessary (which we managed to sort once for a late-night gig in a Leicester Square library).
It was all quite scrappy but it was through these shows that I eventually landed an internship at LNZRT & Bad Vibrations, who promoted shows across London and also programmed several East and North London venues including MOTH Club, The Shacklewell Arms, The Montague Arms (RIP), The Waiting Room and Dingwalls.
I stayed with LNZRT & Bad Vibrations for the next eight years, evolving from my intern beginnings to being their Head Of Production across all of their shows, as well as working on Wide Awake Festival and promoting my own events under the name Friends Serene.
I have actually never studied music! I moved to London from South Wales to study English Literature.
Though I love literature and reading, I never fully felt that it would lead to a future career - the main draw for me was moving to London for uni was London itself, which at the time (for a boy from the Rhondda Valleys) seemed like the only place to go to be around as much music and exciting cultural life as possible.
Once I’d finished university, I rotated through a variety of different administrative jobs and then spent all my spare time in the evenings and weekends going to gigs, until I finally met a group of like-minded gig-goers who were up for taking a punt on trying to set up our own nights.
What made you want to work in music and how did you manage to transition to a career in music?
I’ve always loved music but, to be honest, I never really thought a career in it would be an actual reality. I had never met anyone who had a proper job in the ‘industry’ until I started the LNZRT internship, so there were no examples around me to pull from that showed any kind of clear path. My main motivation to start putting on gigs was just because I just loved music and going to gigs, and thought it would be interesting just to have a crack at putting on a show myself - it really wasn’t any more ambitious than that to begin with.
However, there was one key moment that absolutely helped me transition from pub gigs to working in the industry and that was meeting Jon Dunn from Parallel Lines in the summer of 2016. I’d been putting on small shows for about three years and, though I’d learnt a lot about promoting and staging events in that time, I still felt I needed some advice on how to step it up to another level, so I’d started reaching out to promoters I admired (who’s shows I’d regularly attended) with evidence of the shows I’d worked on so far and asked if I could buy them a coffee and ask their advice. I wasn’t looking for a job, just some tips on ways I could make my shows better. Jon was one of the first to respond and kindly let me ask him a whole bunch of questions about his career and his shows.
When it was over, I’d asked him if he knew of anyone else who would be willing to be subjected to my line of questioning, which is how I got put in touch with Keith Miller of LNZRT & Bad Vibrations - so, thank you for your time, Jon!
No two days are the same (as it depends on what we’ve got on on that week) but there are tasks that happen daily, especially relating to the diary - discussing availability with our regular promoters and clients, monitoring challenge processes, chasing contracts, to name but a few.
Around all this there is always overarching strategic work to be done - identifying gaps in the diary and the kinds of shows that could fill them, dealing with new promoter requests, finding time to creatively network with new promoters and clients in order to bring in new talent and create new opportunities for people that have not used the venue before.
There is also a great deal of cross-departmental work each day - whether that’s discussing sales and strategy with our ticketing and marketing departments, negotiating complicated production queries with our hard-working tech team (they’re always the first to arrive and the last to leave) or discussing wider company policy with our youth engagement team so we can make sure that the Roundhouse’s commercial goals align with our work a registered youth charity.
So, in summary, there is no average day-to-day as such (as each show’s needs are varied and unique) but it’s always my priority to make sure the diary is full of varied and exciting shows, and that our clients feel their events and artists are being looked after to the highest standards.
How did running your own events under Friends Serene help your career?
I’ve found that running my own events, whether it was the pub gigs back in the day or the shows I do now under the Friends Serene banner, has been invaluable in helping develop my career, as running your own projects means you meet so many different kinds of people across all disciplines - including venue and artist managers, agents, sound engineers, rep, door people, merch teams, bar staff, radio pluggers, the list goes on.
Rather than just focusing on your specific responsibility within the structure of a show, you can see and engage directly with the process holistically and be able to feel first-hand the different challenges that happen in each different discipline - which is enormously beneficial when working in any cultural space.
Never put a ceiling on your learning - there’s always more to learn and you will always benefit from it, even if that’s just you figuring out which roles your skills suit more than others.
What drew you to working in the live music sector and what’s your favourite part of your job?
I always just wanted to be in and around music in my day-to-day life - it’s as simple as that, really. There was no master plan, I just figured out early on that I was better at putting on other people’s gigs than playing my own. I had a brief spell as a drummer but that’s a story for another day!.
I didn’t even intend to end up in live music specifically - I just followed what I was interested in step-by-step, put the time in with an open mind and then the parts of the industry that I felt I was best suited for started revealing themselves to me organically.
There really isn’t much of a better feeling than seeing a room full of people enjoying a show or event that you and your team have put a lot of work into behind-the-scenes - seeing it come to fruition and for that to potentially be a special moment for someone in the audience is such a rewarding feeling.
What advice would you give to someone who’s just starting out in the music industry?
Let your passion and your interests be your guiding motivation - if it interests you, follow it. Worry about whether it will be your career or not later on. Ask yourself what you’d like to spend your life doing and then take it from there.
Meet as many people as possible, as you never know who you’ll meet that’ll have that nugget of wisdom you didn’t realise you were looking for.
No task is beneath you. Get stuck in to as many different things as possible.
What are the biggest challenges in your line of work?
I’ve always thought the juggling of my personal and professional life has been the biggest challenge. Working in music can be all-consuming and there are a lot of personal sacrifices that can come along with that - there have been times in my life where I’ve been at gigs 5-6 nights a week, which doesn’t leave much time for yourself and others, and definitely isn’t good for your physical and mental health. I think knowing what to say no to is pretty crucial as it is very easy to get caught up in the hamster-wheel.
Highlight of your career so far?
I know this will sound cheesy but programming the Roundhouse is a bit of a ‘pinch me’ moment. I remember being thirteen on Aberystwyth Pier and reading about when the Ramones played the venue in one of those Q magazine retrospectives about punk music and thinking that London must be an exciting place to be - so to be programming the venue a couple of decades later is wild.
Outside of that, being involved in Wide Awake was always a special moment in time. I’ve also had the pleasure of working and meeting some artists that teenage Tal would be very excited about - Dave Grohl, Michael Stipe, Kim Deal. I basically just do everything in service to my teenage self.
Finally, what are you listening to at the moment?
Aldous Harding - ‘Train On The Island’
John Frusciante - ‘Shadows Collide With People’
The Itch - ‘It’s The Hope That Kills You
Clementine March - ‘Powder Keg’
Mandy Indiana - ‘URGH’
Yaya Bey - 'Fidelity'
Manic Street Preachers - ‘The Holy Bible’ (always)
Let your passion and your interests be your guiding motivation - if it interests you, follow it. Worry about whether it will be your career or not later on. Ask yourself what you’d like to spend your life doing and then take it from there.
Meet as many people as possible, as you never know who you’ll meet that’ll have that nugget of wisdom you didn’t realise you were looking for.
No task is beneath you. Get stuck in to as many different things as possible.
What are the biggest challenges in your line of work?
I’ve always thought the juggling of my personal and professional life has been the biggest challenge. Working in music can be all-consuming and there are a lot of personal sacrifices that can come along with that - there have been times in my life where I’ve been at gigs 5-6 nights a week, which doesn’t leave much time for yourself and others, and definitely isn’t good for your physical and mental health. I think knowing what to say no to is pretty crucial as it is very easy to get caught up in the hamster-wheel.
Highlight of your career so far?
I know this will sound cheesy but programming the Roundhouse is a bit of a ‘pinch me’ moment. I remember being thirteen on Aberystwyth Pier and reading about when the Ramones played the venue in one of those Q magazine retrospectives about punk music and thinking that London must be an exciting place to be - so to be programming the venue a couple of decades later is wild.
Outside of that, being involved in Wide Awake was always a special moment in time. I’ve also had the pleasure of working and meeting some artists that teenage Tal would be very excited about - Dave Grohl, Michael Stipe, Kim Deal. I basically just do everything in service to my teenage self.
Finally, what are you listening to at the moment?
Aldous Harding - ‘Train On The Island’
John Frusciante - ‘Shadows Collide With People’
The Itch - ‘It’s The Hope That Kills You
Clementine March - ‘Powder Keg’
Mandy Indiana - ‘URGH’
Yaya Bey - 'Fidelity'
Manic Street Preachers - ‘The Holy Bible’ (always)